Military service

[twirlgrrl]

Just after I'd chatted with some folks online about not wanting Blue to join the military, like, EVER, and about my church's historical C.O. and/or noncombatant status, the next time I cracked open my church magazine I saw an article about military service. That sort of synchronicity happens often, believe it or not. Anyway, I wrote about it and put the article on one of my other LJs, so if you want to read it you can go here:

http://spread-word.livejournal.com/21056.html

It doesn't address the only lingering issue I haven't resolved for myself in regards to the topic. The fact is, it seems that sometimes military action is truly necessary--as in the Holocaust, to use an obvious example. What is my duty in that circumstance? Should I feel comfortable excluding myself due to my religious beliefs? It's sortof like the vaccination thing; I'm able to pick and choose because most kids are vaccinated. Is it OK to let others carry that burden? What would be a truly effective nonviolent solution to something like WWII? If people from all over the world had traveled to Germany, Poland etc. to clog up the works and become nonviolent human shields, would that have stopped the Nazis? Eventually? Ever? I know I am personally committed to nonviolence, but I am also committed to compassion and serving others. I'm not sure how to reconcile those values in certain situations.

I'm just musing, but of course your thoughts are welcome!

Comments

[the-changeling.livejournal.com]

Apart from the spectre of him being killed in action, we'd be happy for Hugh to join the Armed Forces. If he decides that role of discipline and honour and serving, is one he'd like, then we'd support it.

If only the hoodlums and the power freaks go in, there is no one to create balance and pride and honour.

Being raised in Europe, and not being raised to speak German, may have more to do with our differences on this. I think it would be very difficult to have a balanced perspective on war if you were raised in the USA, and had the slightest knowledge of how... ehm unevenly... the USA has used it's armed forces around the world.

Of course, eternal vigilance is a pre-requisite... don't get me started on "Believe me I can't tell you but honestly there is good evidence" Iraq!!!!!!

I do beleive in non-violence.. to a point. yes, I understand the self-limiting nature of say "I beleive in non-violence BUT..." But.. I won't stand by and see babies ripped from wombs and testicles and breasts collected as war trophies. Ever.

I think what's happening in Tibet, is proof that non-violence only works if the system is capable of listening... when the Dalai Lama has to sit and watch his own monks fight... you know non-violence is part of a whole host of solutions, not The Only One. The Aim, but sometimes you need to defend in order to achive the name.

I would hate it.. as a mother.. but I'd respect it. And hope we'd given him what he needed to be a _decent_ and powerful soldier... one capable of leading.

And if he wants to be a grunt... oh well, he'll be a grunt! :-)

He is starting martial arts training at 5....

[twirlgrrl.livejournal.com]

Interesting perspective, thanks!

I think I would try to find a way to support Blue if he chose to serve, but honestly my heart wouldn't be in it. I would always want to maintain a loving connection with him no matter what his choices.

My personal problem with it is the one that's outlined in the article, about the act of taking up arms = willingness to kill, and I can't reconcile that with "Thou shalt not kill." There are no exceptions in the commandment as I read it. It doesn't say "thou shall not wound" though. ;-)

I like the idea of martial arts, for the art, history and exercise. Though I doubt we'll go in that direction unless Blue comes up with the idea on his own.

[the-changeling.livejournal.com]

If I had to kill to defend Hugh's life, I would. End of.

Everything else above and below that, is just rhetoric: I know I would kill, therefore the entire argument is important, necessary, vital, but academic.

I do understand that others would not make that choice.

But then, I'm not Christian... so I have no conflict over "thou shalt not kill" My belief system accepts that if others are coming over the hill with death in their eyes, you kill the buggers first. :-)

You accept what you've done, and that what you've done is huge, and with great weight, and should not be done lightly, but that there was no choice given the intent of those that attacked...

[twirlgrrl.livejournal.com]

I hear you.

[twirlgrrl.livejournal.com]

Oh, and yes, about Tibet... EEEEEEESH. Terrible. Didn't the Dalai Lama recently say that he would have to resign as the political leader in exile (he can't resign as spiritual leader, of course) if the monks continued their violence? Sounds like his commitment to nonviolence is absolute.

[the-changeling.livejournal.com]

I think we know we'll be in serious trouble the day the Dalai Lama advocates violence...

Am just totally disgusted by China. I could write a book. I'm horrified we're attending the Olympics there...

[twirlgrrl.livejournal.com]

I know, I can't believe we're having the Olympics there either.

Wow, what a great question!

[slinksgirl.livejournal.com]

I can't quite figure out my stance on war. I firmly believe that violence begets nothing but more violence. I believe war should be the last resort, when all attempts at peaceful resolution have failed. I also think that we create a lot of our own problems outside of the US.

That being said, I also believe that violence can be a necessary evil and is, at times, the only option. But how do we know when it is the only option? How do we keep ourselves from going too far? How do we ensure safety and respect of human rights without believing that we have the right to police the world? And while I enjoy the freedom to criticize our government for all of their failings and ulterior motives for war, I do understand that someone is fighting for that very freedom for me.

I can't quite reconcile my pacifist nature with my fear of loss of freedom and my outrage at the injustices occurring across the planet.

Re: Wow, what a great question!

[twirlgrrl.livejournal.com]

Exactly, that's where I am too.

This is why women don't run the military. We'd analyze things to death and we wouldn't get enough actual killing done. Hey wait a minute...

Re: Wow, what a great question!

[twirlgrrl.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I'm not personally so sure about the "someone is out there fighting for my freedom" thing right now. I understand that in the (distant) past Americans had to fight for independence, and that freedom of speech, expression, religion etc. is a core value here, and I appreciate that very much. But I don't see any of our current or recent military actions as related to preserving that freedom. In fact I think that the battle to preserve those freedoms is being waged here at home, between activists and government agents, between the Patriot Act proponents and the voters. I'm very passionate about that battle but, to me, the fight we picked with Iraq doesn't have a lot to do with our freedoms. It has more to do with money.

Anyway.

Re: Wow, what a great question!

[slinksgirl.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree 100%. I do not think that Iraq as anything to do whatsoever with anything related to my freedom. But I do think that it was a handy scare tactic to force things like the Patriot Act into play. OMG YOU DON'T WANT THE TERRORISTS TO KILL YOU, DO YOU? YOU BETTER LET US TAP PHONE LINES WITHOUT WARRANTS, THEN. ALSO, WE REALLY NEED TO START DETAINING PEOPLE FOR AN INDETERMINATE PERIOD OF TIME AND TORTURING THEM BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KIIIIILL YOU.

Re: Wow, what a great question!

[twirlgrrl.livejournal.com]

Exactly. That's why I have a hard time with the "fighting for our freedoms" line these days. I know that there's some truth to it somehow but my mind immediately jumps to what you just said and it just doesn't resonate for me, you know? I have to put some thought into finding a way to make that concept meaningful for me again.

Re: Wow, what a great question!

[jennifergroovy.livejournal.com]

~Reading~ I'm all about peace. :-)

[ninjalie.livejournal.com]

I think it comes down to what is more healthy for society. Obviously a lot of people have their own ideas about that, so all you can really do is use your own best moral judgment. Personally, sometimes standing idly by causes more harm than just kicking a couple of asses (metaphorically speaking.)