Yay! 'Cause I love culture. In some ways I am more interested in Jewish culture than Evan is! Although he's more interested in Judaism the religion I think.
He is totally 100% Jewish, all of his family on both sides can essentially be traced back to the same town in Lithuania. Ashkenazi, baby. But they haven't been practicing Jews for several generations, at least 3 I think. His mom grew up in New Jersey and his dad grew up in the Bronx.
I am a WASP with redneck Michigan roots traceable back to George Washington's wife on one side, and Dutch on the other side--both grandparents on that side spoke Dutch, and my grandfather came over to Ellis Island when he was 18 speaking no English. So there ya go. I always identified more with my Dutch side since it was more "cultural" i.e. identifiably non-American.
my grandfather - my mom's father eugen, for whom i'm named - came over from germany, early enough that people thought he was being paranoid (i don't remember if i knew the year). i'm not sure about my mom' mom's family. my mother really identifies with being a german jew. my dad's side's family are also ashkenazic - from austria-hungary and maybe poland and russia?
No, I'm the Adventist. So I grew up doing our SDA version of Sabbath and stuff. Evan's dad is atheist, and his mom had no spiritual inclinations as far as I know until very recently. When her partner John died a couple of years ago, she got really involved in this religious movement that is somewhat based on Sufism I think but has a guru. So Evan was raised with no religious influence at all. He got interested in Christianity a couple of years before I met him, and now I think he is most comfortable with the Quaker tradition, but he comes to church with me once in a while.
Interesting family history! You should find out more about your mom's if you are interested. I am just now getting interested in my family history and relatives are sending me all sorts of stuff. I don't know what it is--a combination of turning 40, having a kid, my 25th high school reunion coming up, my natural inclination to hold onto people & things and never let go... but it's all coming together in a massive memory-hoarding orgy lately.
Another interesting thing is that so many people have German names. Evan's last name is German and my maiden name is German but neither one of us is German. My Dutch grandfather was adamant about that--the Dutch have a thing against Germans, I think because they get confused for Germans. Dutch are fierce about their national identity. Small country, half reclaimed from the sea and all that.
What? No you haven't! Really, I don't expect you, or anyone who hasn't known me for years IRL, to know this stuff. You and I have never had a chance to sit down and exchange life histories, that's for sure.
Adventist guys... I was never a "good Adventist girl" so I wasn't really Adventist-wife material. I am very much a maverick, renegade Adventist,and I never really fit in. Not what most people in the church would consider SDA at all.
Some of my closest friends now are former Adventists, and some are pagans or adherents of other non-Christian religions, and some are agnostic.
I think if Evan had been a heavy-duty member of an opposing rather than complementary religion we would have had issues that might not have let us marry. But since his path is less defined, less doctrinal I guess, we don't have much to fight about... yet? It would only be around Blue's upbringing anyway. I definitely want Blue to have an Adventist identity while I can influence him, so we'll see how that all shakes our around school and stuff.
We started a conversation about religion in your family on an old post of yours, but I never followed up with the questions I wanted to ask you. I am curious about how much of your Judaism is tradition vs religion, and how that works out with Michael's atheism. That's a very abbreviated version of the question and I don't know if you have time to answer it, but someday I hope to understand more about you! :D
yeah i can tell that you are not one who fits the mold. i think we are similar in that respect.... in several categories that don't always overlap in quite the same way (does that make sense?)
i don't know how much of my judaism is tradition versus religion. i guess more of it than i would care to admit is tradition and cultural, wanting to keep doing what i did or add rituals that i find inspiring.
but that being said, i had an interesting experience recently that made me think of you a little bit. it was after the seders and michael said to me something about his discomfort w the idea that the seder teaches the story of exodus as fact when there is no historical evidence. and that really surprised me - i had never thought of it and assumed that it was consistent with whatever evidence there was. a quick googling told me that this was totally incorrect, that not only was it not verified but it actually conflicts in a few ways. and then i was left with the realization that i still believed that it happened and was unable and uninterested in changing that belief.
i was sort of surprised at my own reaction and had two different spins on it. one was negative or at least semi-neutral dismay*, that i would hold on to a belief because it was taught to me even though the facts were against me. but the other was that i was pleased/impressed/stunned because my actual *faith* is usually vague and woo-woo, and the idea that i could believe something so firm and so firmly was comforting.
i'm not doing this justice at all but i have become pretty lazy when it comes to expressing myself effectively. i don't know.
*even this negative was kind of a positive because it gives me empathy and insight
wow i wrote this comment this morning and never hit post comment.....
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2008-05-03 09:56 pm (UTC)what brought on this post?
no subject
Date: 2008-05-03 10:58 pm (UTC):)
no subject
Date: 2008-05-03 11:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-03 11:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-04 12:49 am (UTC)hundred134.no subject
Date: 2008-05-04 12:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-03 11:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-04 12:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-04 12:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-04 01:04 am (UTC)sorry that i don't know!
no subject
Date: 2008-05-04 01:13 am (UTC)I am a WASP with redneck Michigan roots traceable back to George Washington's wife on one side, and Dutch on the other side--both grandparents on that side spoke Dutch, and my grandfather came over to Ellis Island when he was 18 speaking no English. So there ya go. I always identified more with my Dutch side since it was more "cultural" i.e. identifiably non-American.
Where is your family from?
no subject
Date: 2008-05-04 01:33 am (UTC)my grandfather - my mom's father eugen, for whom i'm named - came over from germany, early enough that people thought he was being paranoid (i don't remember if i knew the year). i'm not sure about my mom' mom's family. my mother really identifies with being a german jew. my dad's side's family are also ashkenazic - from austria-hungary and maybe poland and russia?
no subject
Date: 2008-05-04 01:45 am (UTC)Interesting family history! You should find out more about your mom's if you are interested. I am just now getting interested in my family history and relatives are sending me all sorts of stuff. I don't know what it is--a combination of turning 40, having a kid, my 25th high school reunion coming up, my natural inclination to hold onto people & things and never let go... but it's all coming together in a massive memory-hoarding orgy lately.
Another interesting thing is that so many people have German names. Evan's last name is German and my maiden name is German but neither one of us is German. My Dutch grandfather was adamant about that--the Dutch have a thing against Germans, I think because they get confused for Germans. Dutch are fierce about their national identity. Small country, half reclaimed from the sea and all that.
no subject
Date: 2008-05-04 01:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-05-04 06:07 am (UTC)Adventist guys... I was never a "good Adventist girl" so I wasn't really Adventist-wife material. I am very much a maverick, renegade Adventist,and I never really fit in. Not what most people in the church would consider SDA at all.
Some of my closest friends now are former Adventists, and some are pagans or adherents of other non-Christian religions, and some are agnostic.
I think if Evan had been a heavy-duty member of an opposing rather than complementary religion we would have had issues that might not have let us marry. But since his path is less defined, less doctrinal I guess, we don't have much to fight about... yet? It would only be around Blue's upbringing anyway. I definitely want Blue to have an Adventist identity while I can influence him, so we'll see how that all shakes our around school and stuff.
We started a conversation about religion in your family on an old post of yours, but I never followed up with the questions I wanted to ask you. I am curious about how much of your Judaism is tradition vs religion, and how that works out with Michael's atheism. That's a very abbreviated version of the question and I don't know if you have time to answer it, but someday I hope to understand more about you! :D
no subject
Date: 2008-05-04 09:50 pm (UTC)i don't know how much of my judaism is tradition versus religion. i guess more of it than i would care to admit is tradition and cultural, wanting to keep doing what i did or add rituals that i find inspiring.
but that being said, i had an interesting experience recently that made me think of you a little bit. it was after the seders and michael said to me something about his discomfort w the idea that the seder teaches the story of exodus as fact when there is no historical evidence. and that really surprised me - i had never thought of it and assumed that it was consistent with whatever evidence there was. a quick googling told me that this was totally incorrect, that not only was it not verified but it actually conflicts in a few ways. and then i was left with the realization that i still believed that it happened and was unable and uninterested in changing that belief.
i was sort of surprised at my own reaction and had two different spins on it. one was negative or at least semi-neutral dismay*, that i would hold on to a belief because it was taught to me even though the facts were against me. but the other was that i was pleased/impressed/stunned because my actual *faith* is usually vague and woo-woo, and the idea that i could believe something so firm and so firmly was comforting.
i'm not doing this justice at all but i have become pretty lazy when it comes to expressing myself effectively. i don't know.
*even this negative was kind of a positive because it gives me empathy and insight
wow i wrote this comment this morning and never hit post comment.....